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Pink Crown type x Sugar Beth

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  • Pink Crown type x Sugar Beth

    I'm growing out a few F1's of Pink Crown type x Sugar Beth they are growing in a little clump together. I made this cross a few years ago and only now I'm growing them.

    Pink Crown type - a segregating plant from Salmon Flower x Alderman/DBofG. I've no notes to say what type crown, hopefully, a full double type.
    Sugar Beth which to remind myself was a pink flowered, pink podded (snap- I think) a selection made from Elisabeth x Sugar Magnolia at F2.

    As both parents are recessive pink flowering, I was kind of expecting a pink flowered F1, even though I'm using two segregating parents - pink flowers are what I thought would follow?

    I'd love to know what I am missing and have got wrong, why are they blooming the wild type?




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  • #2
    The only situation I can conceive that makes sense is that while both Salmon Flowered and Sugar Beth have pink flowers, the genes responsible for their pink colour are different. I believe Elisabeth was confirmed bb. No idea about Salmon Flowered, do you know?

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    • #3
      No idea about Salmon Flowered, do you know?
      I've assumed it is b but if Elisabeth and 'Mrs Lei' are b, I now think Salmon Flowered isn't the same whether by modifier or different gene.

      b is described as "Deep rose pink flowers. Controls 5-hydroxylation of the B-ring of anthocyanins in flowers, axils and pods." http://data.jic.ac.uk/pgene/Default.asp?ID=73
      Which to me sums up Salmon flowered colour more than say Elisabeth which we know to be a delightful paler pink.

      Can an inherited modifier alter the colour in this way so you think?

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      • #4
        I now think I'm barking up the wrong tree in my previous comment. Wouldn't the pollen and egg cells of the F1 generation have segregated genes, and that's how we end up with diverse F2? Because if they were uniform, then the F2 would be identical to F1. So when you did the cross the gametes weren't genetically uniform, the recessive genes are still being reshuffled, and you ended up with the wild phenotype this generation - because it wasn't really a pink x pink cross based on the sex cells.

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        • #5
          I can confirm that Elisabeth is bb because I did a test cross with a b seedbank accession, and the F1 had pink flowers.

          And I was thinking the same as triffid, maybe Salmon Flowered is pink because of a different gene?

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          • #6
            I think I'm finding the colours thrown from a Salmon Flowered cross have a larger range than those from both Elisabeth and 'Mrs Lei'. But confusingly and I'd have to check back to confirm. but I'm pretty sure I had F1 pinks from a Salmon Flowered x either Elisabeth or 'Mrs Lei' cross.

            In my mind, I think Salmon Flowered is more a b-wild pink or perhaps it is recombining wild purples x pinks shading their true colours and all will become clear in the following grow outs.

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            • #7
              Just a thought for this cross I would have used a pink of Crown type and I haven't specified what type pink on the label, there do seem to be a few shades that have come through. Post above
              I'm pretty sure I had F1 pinks from a Salmon Flowered x either Elisabeth or 'Mrs Lei' cross.
              so perhaps both could be true really?

              b-pink f1 from a bxb cross and a wild purple f1 from a (+or-)bxb so to speak, does this make sense or am I making it up to suit?

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