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Phaseolus coccineus x vulgaris second time round

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  • Phaseolus coccineus x vulgaris second time round

    I had one of these rare crosses before but did not make very detailed notes. It happened again, another chance to record what happened and what will happen.

    Growing out French bean Romanian last year, a bicolour flowered, red stemmed plant appeared in a group of green stemmed and white flowered beans. https://www.growingfoodsavingseeds.c...double-crossed

    Going back to notes when Romanian was grown last, the only runnerbean in the garden that year was St George. So this is almost certainly a cross between Romanian and St George.


    Click image for larger version  Name:	romanian x st george.jpg Views:	1 Size:	119.1 KB ID:	16647
    Last edited by Galina; 18-06-2022, 06:35.

  • #2
    These were the seeds from short runnerbean type rough pods and there were only a few seeds. With this interesting pattern, varying in size and lumpy looking too. I shared some seeds.

    Last edited by Galina; 18-06-2022, 11:43.

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    • #3
      I planted seeds in an ice cream container as a group this year. Not a good choice, as they germinated very unevenly and grew very differently.

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      The plant on the right in the first photo germinated first and just 2 days later had grown to over a foot tall. With very small spindly leaves that look as if they had their edges chewed off. Cotyledons opposing and above ground.

      The second plant to germinate had cotyledons above ground but to one side and there are some signs of anthocyanin. The leaves are now also much yellower green but they look complete and healthier.

      A third and a fourth plant germinated all cotyledons above ground on the fourth again to one side.

      I had to plant them out, as the first germinated plant grew at the rate of nearly a foot a day, very spindly indeed and winding itself around its own stem on the one day hardening off on the balcony. It had to be planted and wound around a support stick with great care, as it was so long, spindly and very weak. After planting out over 4 foot tall.

      The second plant had started growing tall too, but at a slower rate. The third was stronger looking, but short. The fourth was so tiny and weak looking that I protected it with a bottle and its survival was doubtful for a while. Also still short.

      I noticed an ungerminated seed in the pot as I planted, and to my delight 2 weeks after planting out the last plant appeared. Cotyledons not visible above ground, so presumably hypogeal.
      Last edited by Galina; 18-06-2022, 09:03.

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      • #4
        I shall call them plant 1 to plant 5 in order of germination.

        1 and 2 are now both 1.7m tall. They stopped but then grew some more, still a way to go up the 8ft poles. Both have side shoots from some of the lower nodes with stronger bushy growth out of these nodes. 2 is close to flowering and the flower buds look reddish orange.
        Last edited by Galina; 19-06-2022, 14:47.

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        • #5
          Great documentation. You certainly have a full record this year. Interesting to have the one later germinating hypogeal plant.
          Do you have any particular hopes for this range of five such varied progeny?

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          • Galina
            Galina commented
            Editing a comment
            Thank you Jang.

            Last time around I got really spectacular flower colours in this generation. Amazing apricot hues. They faded in later generations to standard pinkish or purplish flowers and generally turned more and more into French Beans. But who knows what happens this time round. I have no expectations apart from a desire to record a bit better.

            One real difference already is that this year 2 plants are tall and the rest are small, including one miniature. As both parents were tall plants and last year's plant too, where does this come from?

            So it is an adventure and I just hope that all 5 will make it to maturity and seed maturity. One of the features last time round was very late maturity with beans only after the equinox and seedsaving was barely possible. But this time round? Who knows.
            Last edited by Galina; 19-06-2022, 09:49.

        • #6
          Click image for larger version

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          Click image for larger version

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ID:	16667 Plants 1 and 2. 1 never had brilliant leaves. Here we have the side shoots coming out from a low node side by side. The one on the left, which is not too sharp almost looks diseased. It is much darker green than 2 to the right of it, which has healthier looking yellowish leaves.



          The yellow leaves are about the same size, just a bad photo. However 2 has developed flower buds. Anticipation of what the colour might be? We will soon know.

          Last edited by Galina; 19-06-2022, 17:37.

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          • Jang
            Jang commented
            Editing a comment
            Galina, These two photos aren't showing for me. The ones below are fine.

          • Galina
            Galina commented
            Editing a comment
            I did have some problems uploading. We had this once before that I can see them just fine, but nobody else can. Hopefully now rectified.

          • Jang
            Jang commented
            Editing a comment
            Fine now, thanks.
            Your flower buds certainly have a reddish look? All will be revealed very soon!

        • #7
          These are the 3 short beans. I doubt they will suddenly grow up the 8 foot poles by the side of them, but who knows. Starting with 4. This is just miniature. About 5 inches tall, with tiny leaves to match.

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          Next to it is 3 which is about normal bush bean size, with several stems and overall quite healthy looking growth and leaves. Look to the right of this photo to see just how tiny 4 is by comparison although the angle of the photo does exaggerate this a bit! 3 looks to be developing flowers too and is far greener.

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          5 is more difficult to photograph on its own, as it emerged close to 2. It is the greener leafed plant in the foreground. Too early to tell whether it will perhaps be a tall plant in time or not.

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          • #8
            Click image for larger version

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ID:	16675 And now we know. Orange pink and white with very tiny standards.

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            • #9
              This morning's attempt at slightly better photos.

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              Flower opening

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              Another nearly opening

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              More buds

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              Group of unopened buds with blossom bag. Will they self pollinate? Hope so.

              They have developed very fast from the first visible flower buds to open flowers and buds on now four trusses. The bicolour trait is still there in this generation, but the red has changed to a pinkish hue.

              Last edited by Galina; 22-06-2022, 07:38.

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              • Jang
                Jang commented
                Editing a comment
                Yes, orange-red, rather than pink-red. Certainly not colours found in French beans. Pennies drop - slowly.

              • Galina
                Galina commented
                Editing a comment
                Here was the discussion of loss of red. https://www.growingfoodsavingseeds.c...ecific-crosses

              • Jang
                Jang commented
                Editing a comment
                Thanks. Gives me a frame of reference. If only a bit more would stick in my head! ☹️

            • #10
              3 with 3 trusses of white flower buds. No colour visible yesterday.

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              • #11
                Opened flower is pure white.

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                • triffid
                  triffid commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Only white flowers here so far.

                • Galina
                  Galina commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Do you see differences in the leaf colour? I have 3 green plants and 2 yellowish green leafed plants. So far yellowish leaf and bicoloured flower go together, also green plant and white flowers.
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