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Pea flower and pod colour combinations?

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  • Pea flower and pod colour combinations?

    Following on from pink flowering peas x purple podded peas being able to produce pink/red podded peas. I wondered if pink flowers would affect yellow pods in anyway and would a pink flowered pink podded x yellow podded pea have any quirks. Any ideas?

  • #2
    What cross do you have in mind?

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    • #3
      These are the crosses I've made and what I was aiming at;
      1, Elisabeth x Golden Sweet = pink flowered yellow podded mangetout
      2, Mrs Lei x Golden Sweet =as above
      3, Sugar Beth pink pink x Golden Sweet = pink flowered red podded snap/mangetout
      4, Sugar Beth purple purple x Sugar Beth pink pink, can this ever give a pink flowered purple podded type?

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      • #4
        I think at least the I pink flowered (green podded) x yellow podded should work?

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        • #5
          Silverleaf help! I have a suspicion that 4 is not possible, it's either pink or purple, but I am struggling to explain why I think this is. Something like A makes purple possible and b modifies it to pink. I might be wrong. If it is not a b gene pink, would it work then?

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          • #6
            Ok - should I make a CEG x Elisabeth cross next year? Have never thought about it. As my main interest is large mangetouts and snaps. But you both have really got me OOhing and AAhing over unusual flowers and pods in a big way!

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Galina View Post
              Silverleaf help! I have a suspicion that 4 is not possible, it's either pink or purple, but I am struggling to explain why I think this is. Something like A makes purple possible and b modifies it to pink. I might be wrong. If it is not a b gene pink, would it work then?
              I had a feeling it wouldn't be possible, just I had loved the idea of a pink flowered purple podded pea and couldn't resist making the cross to try. I must have wondered if purple x pink pod might have made a difference, but was missing this is really a purple x purple with pink modifier.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Galina View Post
                Ok - should I make a CEG x Elisabeth cross next year? Have never thought about it. As my main interest is large mangetouts and snaps. But you both have really got me OOhing and AAhing over unusual flowers and pods in a big way!
                Only you can decide that, if it were me I'd say yes but I do things on a whim and perhaps not so forward thinking as you. If you are thinking along those lines, what about making the cross to Mrs Lei, I've found the pods somewhat bigger than Elisabeth?

                I think there should be two pods of Mrs Lei x Golden Sweet drying now, if enough would you like a couple?

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                • #9
                  Only if you get plenty - yes I would love to grow that cross. We should soon know whether it is possible to have yellow pods and pink flowers. I think it is possible.

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                  • #10
                    I hope so I think the colour combination will be lovely and hopefully a delightful tasting new mangetout!
                    I doubt there will be plenty but I'll send either a couple of F1's or more of the F2's. I could perhaps try this one as an early in the poly-tunnel which should leave enough time to give a second crop?

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                    • #11
                      I have just found again Silverleaf's lovely gene list and worked out your case 4)

                      You have a 9 in 64 chance (14%) of getting red pods and pink flowers in the F2 generation. 27 in 64 are purple flowering and purple pods, 9 + 9 out of 64 are purple flowered part purple pods, 3 are purple flowered and no purple in the pods, 3 + 3 are pink flowered and part red pods, 1 is pink flowered and no purple in the pod. I hope I have got this correct (and understood correctly how to do this in the first place) and it is all statistics anyway.

                      The pink flowers b go with red pods, provided both genes for purple are present and partially red if only one of both purple genes is present. The b modifies the purple pod colour to red. I can't see how with b as the pink gene you could have purple pods.

                      This is another way of achieving red pods, different from my cross of a purple podded pea and a yellow podded pea. Two different ways of achieving red pods, one with pink flowers and one with purple flowers. I think!

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                      • #12
                        Great, thanks Galina that gives me a good idea what to expect.
                        On those statistics, if generally the same for Elisabeth x Sugar Magnolia, then I ended up with a much higher rate of pink flowered types than should have been expected.
                        Although I'm wondering as cross number 4 (3 also) is unstable and should segregate as an F1 how this may affect those statistics? I'll be able to make some selections from the f1's.

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                        • #13
                          Yes and statistically I should have had at least one Sugar Beth plant that was pink flowering and I didn't Just shows the difference between statistics and real life. With Kent Blue x Elisabeth I was favoured slightly with more than one pink flowering plants. Swings and roundabouts. We both should have had 1/4 pink flowering plants in the F2 generation.

                          Well there we really don't know. We can only see the phenotype and don't know the genetics behind it. Some recessives may be hiding in the unstable crosses.

                          For 4) I have assumed full purple with two purple genes for Sugar Magnolia and pink flowers and green pod for Elisabeth. Actually you specified pink pod? Did you mean that? And if you did was it a full or a partial pink?

                          The first two crosses have 1 in 16 chance of pink flowers and a yellow pod, 9 in 16 are purple flowering and with green pod, 3 are purple flowering with yellow pod, 3 are pink flowering with green pods.

                          Again I hope I got it right, I am still learning how to calculate these.
                          Last edited by Galina; 26-09-2014, 21:00.

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                          • #14
                            It's interesting to compare them though and use it as a guide for what to expect.

                            For 4) I have assumed full purple with two purple genes for Sugar Magnolia and pink flowers and green pod for Elisabeth. Actually you specified pink pod? Did you mean that? And if you did was it a full or a partial pink?
                            As far as I could tell it, the cross was Sugar Beth F2 (purple f, purple p, mangetout full pod colour) x Sugar Beth F2 (pink f, pink p, part pod colour, snap type)

                            A 1 in 16 for a pink f yellow p, hmm looks like we will need quite a few F2 seeds to capture them!

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                            • #15
                              No I can't calculate 4) for the reasons above. No issue, in the end it is the practical F2 and 3 grow-out that delivers results, not the theory.

                              Actually I thought - one in 16? That's not too many to grow out? I guess it would be better to grow twice as many F2 plants to make almost certain to get at least one - 32.

                              Just thinking aloud - can they be grown together on a big wigwam? No they can't, because 3/4 of the pink flowering are not yellow podded and it would be too much work marking up each pink flower and check the marker when the pod colour develops. Actually, we would know in advance because of yellow tendrils? But we would then still have to mark up each pink flower because on a wigwam it isn't always clear which plant it belongs to.

                              I think I would want to separate them something like 30cm, each with their own support, to be sure which plant is which. 9 plants per square meter in a grid (with a bit of a border). To be pretty sure of at least one, would require about 4 square meters. I guess one could push them closer together to 15cm distance to save a bit of space. Mark up every plant with yellow tendrils, then a second marker (big flag!) if the flowers are pink.

                              If they were grown in one long line along a fence or at the border of a growing area (next to maincrop potatoes perhaps?) rather than in a grid, closer spacing would be no problem at all - 5 meters in a line for 15cm spacing. I think I favour a line approach to search for pink flowers and yellow pods in the F2. What do you think?
                              Last edited by Galina; 27-09-2014, 16:04.

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