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The mysterious loss of purple gene(s) in peas.

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  • The mysterious loss of purple gene(s) in peas.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	loss of purple genes.JPG Views:	3 Size:	63.2 KB ID:	14191


    Here are 3 pods of pea Beauregarde on consecutive nodes. First (on right) fully purple, normal size, normal colour. Next pea, something clearly happened - it started fully purple, then got jagged edges and the tip of the pod is green. This pod is smaller too. Next pod is 50% longer than normal and green with purple speckling. Last pod, not shown on photo is as long, but entirely green. This is the only plant of Beauregarde that has shown this dramatic loss of purple genes. Surprisingly it lost both of pu and pur to make a green pod in the end.

    I have kept the pure green pod on the plant, as I would like seeds from such a huge, dark green pod. And I would like to know whether this loss of purple genes is permanent or something just for this season.

    The next pod in sequence is also pure green and still very small. The flower colour is still 'wild' or two tone purple.
    Last edited by Galina; 16-06-2021, 10:44.

  • #2
    Baffling. I've been reading about rabbit-eared rogues in peas, which occur due to epigenetic changes. The most obvious indicatior is a massive reduction in stipule size and adoption of a rabbit-ear shape. These changes are permanent, override Mendelian genetics, and oftentimes the transformation is visible as the plant grows, commencing several nodes up.
    Not too dissimilar to your Beauregarde sitation, so it may be an epigenetic phenonemon. If it were only a loss in pigment I'd ask whether it had anything to do with rising temps, but the progressive increase in pod size may indicate something else is exerting an influence.

    Comment


    • triffid
      triffid commented
      Editing a comment
      Not sure which references - on rogues or purpling?
      I have rabbit-eared rogue links here https://royalsocietypublishing.org/d...rspb.1920.0009
      https://www.jic.ac.uk/research-impac...-eared-rogues/

      I should really make a seperate topic about it as I've found so many in my Turner's Spring peas this year that I had to notify the HSL. I know others here might be growing the variety.

    • Galina
      Galina commented
      Editing a comment
      Thank you Triffid. This is great. I am growing them and have not noticed anything amiss. But will look very much closer now. Thank you for the reference.

    • jayb
      jayb commented
      Editing a comment
      Interesting topic and links triffid, thanks.

  • #3
    It's almost like the purple is heavier and has trouble getting up higher.

    Comment


    • Galina
      Galina commented
      Editing a comment
      Or it runs out, leaving the job half finished. Why only the one plant? However, as opposed to purple beans which turn green on cooking, these Beauregarde stay lovely and purple after cooking.

    • Galina
      Galina commented
      Editing a comment
      Maybe a variation on the theme of the white Elisabeth, where potentially the pink has run out? By the way all white Elisabeth are normal pink again. Remember we had one that was Redder than normal and I crossed that with an ordinary Elisabeth. Flower colours are back to normal, the Redder which was a daughter plant of the White Elisabeth and Elisabeth itself are one and the same. No F2 variation from that cross. I just crossed Elisabeth with itself. The pink b spectrum does run from white to quite red, it seems. We will see how the now fully green podded Beauregarde seeds grow next year. And save Beauregarde only from plants that don't lose genes.
      Last edited by Galina; 19-06-2021, 09:57.

    • jayb
      jayb commented
      Editing a comment
      Lol, Elisabeth playing games on us! I did wonder what they would do.

      A nice little project for next year.

  • #4





    And there was another surprise. Pods 4, 5 and 6 on the same plant. 4 and 5 have no hint of purple, but the next one surprised me. Again a short pod with jaggedy edged purple 'running out' halfway down the pod.





    Comment


    • Galina
      Galina commented
      Editing a comment
      So there is purple getting higher up the same plant, just in a very erratic fashion.

    • jayb
      jayb commented
      Editing a comment
      Wierd.

  • #5
    These are the normal Beauregarde and the longer green pod on the right.

    Click image for larger version

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    Comment


    • jayb
      jayb commented
      Editing a comment
      Very handsome indeed.
      Looks to be more of a hook with the green pod?

    • Galina
      Galina commented
      Editing a comment
      Probably the photo. They are all similar comma shaped. Straightened out the green one is 14cm long.

    • jayb
      jayb commented
      Editing a comment
      Nice.

  • #6
    We have another variant. This time loss of red. Out of a couple of candidates, daughter made the choice for her red pea a couple of years ago and she chose the one based on Shiraz and having the shorter Shiraz shape. She liked the shorter plant better than the tall ones. Last year I got a good red and basically was very happy with it. But I decided to grow it out one more time. Several plants, again reasonable red pods, however one plant lost its purple (in this case red) genes and is now plain yellow podded. I had not expected that at all. They do look quite pretty next to each other, because of the shape of the plant being the same.

    Comment


    • jayb
      jayb commented
      Editing a comment
      How tricksy!

  • #7
    Yesterday I noticed what seems to be an opposite phenomenon - the acquisition of purple rather then its loss.
    On my Opal Creek x Sugar Magnolia F1, the purple asserts itself at the top of a plant which has been predominantly green lower down.

    The light wasn’t good so the photo isn’t very clear. The contrast was more striking than shows up here.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	22F928ED-2D28-48FD-BAA1-8CBF22D1B6D1.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	669.8 KB ID:	14329

    Comment


    • jayb
      jayb commented
      Editing a comment
      Interesting observations Galina, thank you. I made the cross with a segregating Sugarbeth (pink pink) to Goldensweet, I haven't progressed them far, possibly seed for f2. Looks like I shall have to think differently for size.

      I must admit I don't remember Sugar Magnolia as being large but I haven't eaten any for a few years.

    • Galina
      Galina commented
      Editing a comment
      SM, Spring Blush and Magnolia Blossom are quite hefty podded.

    • Galina
      Galina commented
      Editing a comment
      Size of course is not the whole story. Would not miss lovely sweet little Sugarbeth snaps despite being barely lionger than an inch.

  • #8



    This is the size difference between Charlie's Gold Snap and the new F2. Both based on Court Estate Gold, but the new F2's other parent is Sugar Magnolia and CGS's other parent is Amish Snap. So yes, I would say that SM does contribute size. It is a bit paler in colour, not quite as golden. Pods are about the same age.

    Comment


    • jayb
      jayb commented
      Editing a comment
      Quite some difference! How are you finding flavour in these early stages?

    • Galina
      Galina commented
      Editing a comment
      Haven't tasted them yet.

  • #9
    Just been reading the latest Rebsie Fairholm blog, a long post from 2019 which I had missed so far. http://daughterofthesoil.blogspot.com/

    What was really interesting was that she also got these jaggedy edges on a red pea, which she has been breeding. The red stops in an erratic fashion and the rest of the pod is yellow. About a third down in the blog is the photo. Does not seem to go together with shorter pods though. I have seen more of these since in the Beauregarde pods and also more green pods, but the plant is now spent and composted and the very last pods had a greater tendency to be green or mottled, rather than jagged.

    Comment


    • jayb
      jayb commented
      Editing a comment
      Cool, I missed that even though I was having a look at her blog the other day.
      Also when I was following up on a couple of threads earlier I saw a picture from a few years ago, I think one from Silverleaf which showed a very similar pod pattern, might have been one of a semi dried pod, But do you think I can find the same thread again!!!!! Will have another look.
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