Monstrance Off type seeds

[jayb]

A few years ago while shelling pods for seed saving I found a couple of pods with differently patterned seeds. I put them to one side and finally had a chance to sow some of them this year, not sure if they are a cross or a mutation?


Off type



Monstrance as they look grown here

[Jang]

Interesting. They look as though they’re trying to be a Yin Yang.

Will you be able to tell whether they’re a cross or a mutation from what happens next, or will it need another generation?

[jayb]

They reminded me of Yin Yang too, it's a few years back and I think I did have some growing. Though these are looking like pole type.

[Galina]

Seed coat is maternal tissue. In other words, the plants were already crossed and this would have been the F2 generation. Normally you would have spotted differences in the look of the plant, but it may have been very similar to Monstrance.

A cross will show further divergence when these seeds are grown. The plants would be all different and there will be differences in the seed harvest too.

If there was a mutation, then this is a one time event and all subsequent generations will be uniform and all plants from all seeds will be identical and produce identical seeds, not the diversity you get after an accidental cross.

The answer indeed will be forthcoming after this year's harvest. If not earlier with different looking plants.

[jayb]

Thanks for the great answer Galina.

Mostly when I've found crossed beans it's come shelling time, I find it's not always obvious from their growth that they are indeed an F1.
At the moment these plants are looking fairly similar, with some small differences, but not outside of the norm, so no help there, it's a waiting game. They are most likely a cross and if both parents have a similar look, ie climbing green bean then unless the flower colour varies or pod type/colour then as Galina says it will be harvest time before we know.

In comparison, the F2 plants I'm growing from Stephenson Blue Eye x Robert's Royalty ( yellow podded pole x purple podded bush), are really varied and showing lots of different traits already.

[Galina]

Looks like a wait until those seeds will be shelled.

[Jang]

Lots to look forward to.

Any chance of you sharing the progress of your deliberate cross of SBE and RR? It sounds like you might well have very interesting differences of flower and pod colour

[jayb]

Will do.

[jayb]

Monstrance off type has white flowers and is producing pods similar to Monstrance. They appear to be an eat-all type.

Too soon to collect for seed, although the few pods I have picked give an indication the off type is a mutation. I wonder also if a very close cross (such as Red Eye Fall) might also give similar results? Though I suspect unlikely.

[Jang]

Interesting. I like the way the seed pattern retains something close to the Monstrance marking but then spreads into a more standard bi-colour. Monstrance has a white flower and an eat-all pod too?

[jayb]

Agree it is a similar pattern. Although with many of these I see a white-faced witch in a black hat, which kind of makes them the complete opposite.

[Jang]

Yes, I see what you mean. An interesting inversion.
There are lots of sacred beans - various saints, Holy Spirits, nuns, monks etc. Do we have many devilish ones I wonder!

[jayb]

I can't think of any off the top of my head.