Help please

[jayb]

I'm growing Blue Greasy grits from several batches of saved seed. One batch has a caution note of possibly they are seeds of Cherokee Trail of Tears instead.
It's a few years since I grew CTofT and I don't remember how they looked. So if you can help I'd love to know, are they purple podded and are they shiny purple pods? Oh, and do the pods fade as they age or remain colourful.

Any help appreciated

[Jang]

I haven't grown CTofT for quite a time either but I remember them as purple podded and fairly shiny. Surprisingly there seems to be a mixture of forms out there as googling brings up both green and purple podded ones.

I don't know whether this photo of ageing from Flickr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/christycreme/6127424515) is at all helpful.



Or this (http://countryheirloomvegetablegarde...ars-beans.html)

[Galina]

When I grew Blue Greasy Grits last year, I had both shiny and matte pods. I had seeds from you, When I grew them before I don't remember shiny pods at all. BGG have shorter pods than CHtoT

[Galina]

This shows all stages quite well. https://awhaley.com/product/cherokee-trail-of-tears/

And so does this and you can see young green pods and pods where the purple is just starting by driving the mouse over the photo. Most beans in the photo are at very late eating stage or beyond. But it shows their development well. https://revivalseeds.ca/products/che...-of-tears-bean

[Jang]

Interesting. I shall have to grow mine again next season as my memory suggests that mine were purple at a much earlier stage. Not sure whether to think my memory is very faulty - which it is - or I have a different or untrue strain.

[jayb]

Thanks both for all the input, so interesting and perhaps a deeper topic than I had first thought. Are they CTof T, I'm still not sure one way or the other.

From memory I thought the pods had a sort of reddy touch of colour to them as they aged, these don't seem to. The pods are also colouring up very early (I think), so either they are something else again or just enough variation in CTofT depending on the source of seed to be able to give them a firm id.

I took some pictures this morning which aren't very good sorry, the light levels were really low and raining. I've tried to show the different ages of pods, they really are quite glossy in real life.

[jayb]

When I grew Blue Greasy Grits last year, I had both shiny and matte pods. I had seeds from you, When I grew them before I don't remember shiny pods at all. BGG have shorter pods than CHtoT

Good find and how exciting Galina, are you growing these out again? I think they are such a reliable, productive and tasty bean, they just thrive come autumn. Were there any other differences between the shiny and mats? I think the ones I've grown have always been somewhat matt here. I think you mention your BGG are green podded with no hint of colour?

[Galina]

What is shown in your photos looks like CH T o T. Especially photo 3. However, just like with peas the purple develops differently, depending on weather, soil, location perhaps. Seems that your pods colour up earlier than I remember. But they do all end up fully dark purple. The white seeded ChToT gets purple slower and with a reddish hue, but I don't remember red hued pods in the black seeded one. However even just being grown under a leaf can alter the colour. There are little 'needle pods' when young just like yours in pic 3, they look very typical. I wish I remembered BGG half as well, but I have only grown them a few times and apart from the difference in shiny, which I noted, I didn't pay all that much attention and photographed less. I remember colour but I don't remember fully dark purple pods. But will photograph next time growing, as I want to follow up both shiny and matte pods anyway.

[Galina]

No Blue Greasy Grits are black seeded. There is a white seeded variant of ChToTs.

From memory BGG have slightly fatter seeds, but I will have to check that when I see both side by side. And when I talk about BGG there is always the proviso that mine may be variants from BGG, as some now seem to be greasy ie shiny and others not. I can say that I very likely grow the 'correct' ChToT, but there has always been a question mark over BGG or indeed BGG might be a very more variable bean.

[Galina]

Are there other climbing black seeded purple podded beans?

Unfortunately yes. I find this to be a common variant of crossed beans, often also with purple stem. CHToT crossed with I think Mechelse Tros produced just that from a MT seed. If there was crossing going on between BGG and CHToT, it will be very difficult to keep them apart now. We will need to compare from good batches. How are your other BGG batches doing Jayb or are they all mixed together this year?

[jayb]

I don't think these are crossed, they just didn't seem quite right for CTofTs, though with both your input it is likely they are, so shows how much I know! . They are growing alongside a batch of BGG, I'll likely pull these purple ones out now while they are still easy to spot, although they don't appear to be growing into each other.

BGG, one batch - the red speckle, or so the label says is growing in the poly-tunnel and the remainder are on the plot along part of bean gate. A little late but they are putting out a nice crop. I think I'll tag a few bunches for seed saving, might be easier to follow them next time.