Papa de Rola cross

[jayb]

I've been growing these out for a couple of years now. I started off sowing a couple of off type seeds in 2010 from a packet of Papa de Rola beans, bought from Baker Creek. I labelled them as Dark Papa, and have 'assumed' them to be F2's, no photo sorry, but they were similar in colour to the F3 though rounder in shape, somewhere between Papa de Rola and F3 shape.

What Papa's should look like and F3 and F4 from the 'Dark Papa' seed.
010-001 by jayb 35, on Flickr

F4 seeds
012-001 by jayb 35, on Flickr

Overall a shelling bean, predominately climbers, though some only 4-5 foot or so.

[Silverleaf]

Aren't they gorgeous!

[jayb]

I reckon. A bit of shiny bead syndrome, I have it bad!
I've got some of these to pod today, way excited to see what's inside

[Silverleaf]

I love the variety of colours there. Looking forward to seeing what's in the pods!

[Galina]

Oh yes - Shiny Bean Syndrome is a well known disease and there is no cure.

What is really interesting that the clear delineation between pattern and white background is not there in the F3 and 4. I actually doubt their relationship with Papa de Rola. Neither is the shape of PDR seeds present in the F3 although maybe in some in the F4. Did you say that these were odd 'bonus seeds' in the original packet?

Some of the F3 seeds look like they have an extra colour compared to the F4. That is a sign of a recently crossed bean. The number of colours in bean seeds gets fewer as beans start to change towards a stable new variety. I have seen this before with one of the ever-changing Georgian beans (that don't seem to ever stabilise.)

[Galina]

The bean cross reminds me of Azul y Rosa (blue and pink), see here - (the spelling of the name is suspect, but I can't find it anywhere else at the mo)
http://www.bohnen-atlas.de/sorten/a/...e-pollo-de-ray
or here freshly shelled
https://www.flickr.com/photos/carped...57649243598296

[jayb]

I think you are right with the plainer seeds, although as I've been growing them as a group it's hard to be accurate. Some colours and types get sown but are not repeated in the next generation, others have definite links or family types. Also always a new type of seed is harvested with each generation or further sowing which make these so much fun! The one constant are the pods, all fibrous types. Many are speckled or striped.

[jayb]

Great links thanks, beautiful looking beans, they do have the same type look.

[jayb]

I actually doubt their relationship with Papa de Rola.

I’ve doubted it too since the shape and colour combination had not been repeated. I marked them as Dark Papa’s as they came out of the packet along with the correct beans and as I’ve really no idea what they are the name stayed to reflect this. I think impossible to tell what cross they may have been from; from memory there were 4 – 6 seeds, they could have been from one pod and the generation?

The colours do seem all over the place and I’m wondering if this was possibly a three way cross, in which case they could have been unstable F1 seeds I received?

I sowed some more of the probable F3 seed this year and have new colours –green speckled for one!
The F5 and 6 also are not what I thought they would be!

[Galina]

Oh you've got more generations already? Would love to see pictures. Green speckled sounds very nice.

[Silverleaf]

Yup, we demand pictures!

[jayb]

These are the aged F4 seeds from 2011

025-001 by jayb 35, on Flickr


026 by jayb 35, on Flickr

[jayb]

F4 seeds grown last year,

Mixed
048-001 by jayb 35, on Flickr

One each of the main types
049 by jayb 35, on Flickr

I love the blue speckly ones
051 by jayb 35, on Flickr

[jayb]

More F4's from this year

055 by jayb 35, on Flickr

059 by jayb 35, on Flickr

083 by jayb 35, on Flickr

084 by jayb 35, on Flickr

Excited about the mix, looking forward to growing them on again

[jayb]

These two types really do look quite green speckles to me, but the camera really doesn't do it justice and they just look a bit plain and grey! The darker coloured look to be two tone green to the eye, sso pretty

053 by jayb 35, on Flickr

[Silverleaf]

They are fascinating and beautiful! Love them.

[Galina]

I can't get enough of these pictures, Jayb! The views of one each of the main 8 types are very interesting! Definitely two sizes, plain colours as well as very convoluted ones. On picture 51 second from top on the right is very complex, where as others are definitely on the way to settling into a new bean. Yes I can see the green tint. Just looking at picture 59, the black and white beans. They do actually show a patch of black around the hilum, covering over half the bean, not an all-over pattern. A bit like PDR?? . Shape seems to be straight and squarish or with a rounder back, but not quite kidney shaped. I love virtually running them through my hands!

[Silverleaf]

Yes, beans are very tempting when it comes to running them through your hands, aren't they?

I also love mixed selections of many small varied objects which can be sorted into groups. I think I could probably play with those beans for hours!