Crimson Crush

[jayb]

Crimson Crush F1 is a new outdoor variety this year, reported to be the 'most' blight resistant available, carrying both the PH2 and PH3 genes. I didn't have a lot of information but a thread on A4A puts it all together better than I can. (Information was supplied with trial plants in a giveaway).


The story of Crimson Crush

Resistance genes were discovered in wild species of tomatoes.

These were transferred into our cultivated tomato species through conventional breeding methods.

One parent line was developed from a cross in the UK in 2005 with further selection taking place in outdoor trials in Worcestershire & Warwickshire.

This parent contains the PH2 gene.

The second parent was selected in the USA

This parent was shown to have excellent blight resistance even in very warm, humid conditions.

This parent contains the PH3 gene.

The offspring of these parents resulted in vigorous plants with very good temperature tolerance and exceptional blight resistance thanks to having both the PH2 and PH3 genes.

The earliness and excellent eatii qualities were discovered in trials and blind taste tests over a two year period in various trial locations throughout the UK.

Crimson Crush is the result and is now available to you!


This was an added paragraph to show the results of scientific tests:


Whilst Crimson Crush is fully resistant to Blight, in trials at Bangor University, where a solution of blight spores was applied directly to the plants, some spot infection occurred, this infection affected less than 10% of the plant and the growth and productivity was unaffected, whereas control varieties were 100% infected and died as a result of the infection.

I can not make head or tail of the conclusion I think they might mean other varieties that were subjected to the same tests.



This is another claim that Dobies/Sutton make on the same leaflet:

After first selecting Crimson Crush for its super Blight Busting powers, we reselected it again by accident in a blind taste test, where it surpassed established names like Brandywine, Black Russian and a whole host of others.

http://www.allotments4all.co.uk/smf/...html#msg800728

[jayb]

These are the Crimson Crush plug plants I received in mid April, they were rooted cuttings rather than seed grown plants. Once potted up I grew them on underlights, they were quite slow at first to make much growth.

Crimson Crush




Crimson Crush have starting flowering the last couple of days. They are still in pots in the green house, I'm hoping to plant them out when the weather settles a bit.

[Galina]

There was talk/complaint about these being rooted cuttings rather than grown from seed (not from you I hasten to add). Does it really make a difference to the final root ball? Just wondering because all the gardening books tell you that you can root tomato sideshoots and they do root easily.

I usually grow far too many from seed anyway, so don't have much experience about growing from sideshoots.

Also I hope that the two resistance genes can be preserved in any seed saved.

There are two different types of resistance - horizontal and vertical. If I understand correctly, horizontal means that a plant is resistant to a broader spectrum of blight and vertical means that a plant is 'bomb proof' against the strain of blight it has resistance to and not against another strain, or blight in general. As blight mutates, does that mean that Crimson Crush (even if both resistance genes were preserved in saved seeds), could not be quite as resistant when our present strains evolve? Or are the genes in Crimson Crush actually broader based blight fighting genes?

There is a lot to find out about this tomato. Including how to preserve a few cuttings over winter, as seeds invariable are more of a lottery.

Hope it is as resistant and as good as advertised.

[templeton]

Galina,
my guess is this is vertical resistance, controlled by two specific genes. This means it is heritable. (That's not to say that there may not be some horizontal resistance hanging around in the variety as well. Depends how it was screened/selected.)
However, in one of the posts above the genes are named PH2 PH3 - the capitalisation suggesting these are dominant characteristics, so a heterozygous plant will still have resistance. Also a bit confused as to why rooted cuttings rather than seeds were provided. This suggests the plants might be F1 hybrids. So 3/4 of the offspring will have resistance, but all the other characteristics are a lottery. Nice place to start a breeding project, tho.
T

[Galina]

Thank you Templeton.

Well that cuttings business is easily explained. We are talking almost certainly about a variety under development. There is a prize for sending in reports. Based on favourable customer reports and uptake they may or may not decide to go to the trouble of producing a meaningful amount of hybrid seed. I think at the moment there just isn't much seed (yet) hence the cuttings approach. Hybrid seed is expensive to produce and they want to make sure that people really want/like the variety and that it does well before going further I think.

Indeed a nice place to start a breeding project. There is just a chance that Crimson Crush will never be available from seed.

[jayb]

There was talk/complaint about these being rooted cuttings rather than grown from seed (not from you I hasten to add). Does it really make a difference to the final root ball? Just wondering because all the gardening books tell you that you can root tomato sideshoots and they do root easily.

I usually grow far too many from seed anyway, so don't have much experience about growing from sideshoots.

No real difference that I've noticed, I mentioned it as it is more normal to receive young plants grown from seed rather than cuttings. I've always found rooted cuttings do very well, these were slower to start growing than I expected, but I think if they had come from ideal conditions straight into darkness for what 5-7 days coupled with a temperature drop, no wonder they had a bit of a sulk!

Also I hope that the two resistance genes can be preserved in any seed saved.

There are two different types of resistance - horizontal and vertical. If I understand correctly, horizontal means that a plant is resistant to a broader spectrum of blight and vertical means that a plant is 'bomb proof' against the strain of blight it has resistance to and not against another strain, or blight in general. As blight mutates, does that mean that Crimson Crush (even if both resistance genes were preserved in saved seeds), could not be quite as resistant when our present strains evolve? Or are the genes in Crimson Crush actually broader based blight fighting genes?

From the little I understand, Late Blight (LB) is as you say evolving and if it comes up against resistance is able to mutate to better attack. Tomato and potato varieties which were once resistant to LB are now unable to resist some of the newer strains. Plant varieties that show resistance in the UK may not be resistant if grown in the US or vice versa as different strains have evolved, (although if enough resistant genes are present it could give a wide enough base of resistance?) LB resistance from multiple genes has proved successful so far in a few potato varieties. Sarpo Mira also has a resistance gene not previously known. Having multiple resistance enables greater protection from mutating LB forms. (Palest Pink Eye, I think I sent you one, has been extremely resistant here the last few years, I believe it links back to Tollocan)

Randy Gardner in the US has been developing LB resistant tomatoes and a few years ago released Mountain Magic F1 (cherry type), with both PH2 PH3 genes, which has given great results ( I think there were others too) I notice they are now available in the UK http://www.thompson-morgan.com/veget...agic/tm54735TM

How credible it is I don't know but I've found even in very resistant potato varieties some leaf infection can occur but the plant is able to keep pace and will grow through an attack, it's almost like it is evolving to match the mutating virus.

[jayb]

This suggests the plants might be F1 hybrids

When I asked if Crimson Crush was an F1, Suttons originally replied it was not, however they have since responded this was an error and it is indeed an F1.

Yes, I think seed was in short supply, perhaps a rush to get it in the catalogue this year?

Suttons also told me they would be selling it as seed later this year in the 2016 catalogue.

[templeton]

Galina,
they are likely to make F1 seed available - keeps the profits close if others cant produce seed from their seed. I think i read in Carole Deppes new book that the late blight problem emerging in NH is from new races introduced from South/meso america in recent years. Can't avoid that shringing world...
T

[Silverleaf]

Time to de-hybridise it then!

[jayb]

First fruits are setting, plants are sitting in a wheel barrow on the way to being planted in the veggie plot.

Crimson Crush

[jayb]

Crimson Crush had a bit of a slow start once I planted them out, the weather was a bit naff, cold and windy. But they have finally picked up and they are doing ok. The trusses aren't very big and the toms look to be a small salad size.





I've took a few side shoots for cuttings which rooted easily, so hopefully a few more plants to dot around outside. I have a couple of Crimson Crush growing in the poly-tunnel too but there are plenty of tomatoes I can pamper inside, I'd love some that stand a good chance outside.

[jayb]

Won't be long!

[Galina]

They've come along a treat!

[jayb]

Blackbirds think so!

[jayb]

I was a little underwhelmed by the taste of the first fruit, though this is often the case and with tomatoes, they seem to need a couple of practices until they get it right. Nice juicy salad size tom, fairly balanced with fair to good flavour. Skin is not thick and nice ratio of flesh to gel. Interestingly all the seeds were very small and looked to be immature, hopefully later fruits will have viable seed.

One the blackbirds missed


Leaves remain healthy


Sliced

[Galina]

Maybe just a tad underripe? Bad blackbirds - normally they come and steal when things are at their tastiest! Usually a good indicator when to harvest (especially with gooseberries). Yes they do treat tomatoes (especially yellow cherries) as if they were fruit (which technically they are of course).

Hope the next lot comes up to scratch flavour wise. From memory, it was Colin Simpson of Simpson seeds, who always saves tomato seeds from the second truss. And he should know .

I find tomato seeds vary in size quite a lot and perfectly good plants come from really small seeds. Cherry toms are always smaller, but looking at seed saved here of the same variety in different years, I see differences in seed size.