Bullroyd Bean Pea and Irish Preans

[Jang Gone Sowing Find all posts View Profile Close Jang]

I've got a bit of a mix-up between seeds of these two varieties which I rather unfortunately grew side by side. I have a small number of each which Im fairly confident are one or the other but another batch which could be either.

I find it very difficult to distinguish between the two seeds. Both varieties are large, have black hilums and both have similar tannish greenish colouring (perhaps there's an accepted name for this colouring?) - BBP on left and IP on right.

I'm wondering whether the hilum in BBP is slightly more pronounced and the seeds slightly rounder but I'm not sure. Am I right perhaps in thinking that the two lots of seeds are almost indistinguishable? And perhaps in growth habit too? I didn't keep careful enough records of these two to know whether the pod shape is similar, for example.

So in general I'm wondering whether there's much difference in any aspect of these two peas.

[Zazen999 Just getting started. Find all posts View Profile Close Zazen999]

Interesting...I've looked at Rebsie Fairholm's blog, and the photos of the seeds of Irish Preans look flatter and more like broad beans. And again on her other blog
she mentions them being 8ft tall; then when you look at pics on the HSL page, the flowers look almost identical. This is why I never plant the sameish varities next to each other, as confusion sets in!

[Jang]

Yes, her seed photos suggest that Irish Preans are perhaps somewhat flatter on the whole. And I suppose, looking at my photo, you could say that two out of four of IP are flattish whereas only one out of four of BBP are. Not sure that's conclusive evidence but it has the beginnings of a clue!
I'm beginning to be convinced that my 'other' batch is BBP.

I reckon not to plant sameish varieties next to each other either, but slipped up on this occasion. ☹️

[triffid Looking for my Spade! Find all posts View Profile Close triffid]

Looking at saved seed of both varieties here and I can see no distinguishing features. It may be that the only way to truly be sure of correct identity is to record and compare other traits next time you grow them alongside the original seed, such as those listed on that one French observation document that I posted a few weeks back. They might have different leaf size, sepal shape, etc. I'm fairly certain IP has blunt pods.

[Jang]

Thanks for checking your seed. Yes, it’s a competition between pea hummus this year or forensic observation next year!
I’ll certainly be interested to observe both varieties more carefully and grow them further apart next year.

[Galina Isolating and Pollinating Find all posts View Profile Close Galina]

There is a lesson for us all. Following 8ft high pea straw down to see where it originated from is quite hard work and I have certainly mixed up Oregon Sugar pod in the past with something else.

Do you have any old seeds left? If you have managed to harvest a few seeds you are happy with and a lot that could be either, then I see a large portion of pea hummus or some other delicacy on your horizon.

[Jang Gone Sowing Find all posts View Profile Close Jang]

As a final thought, I’m wondering whether anyone who’s grown both has detected any difference in the eating quality of the two peas. Soup, hummus, curries, mushy peas ..... ?

[Zazen999 Just getting started. Find all posts View Profile Close Zazen999]

No idea, i mainly grow peas for the pods to eat, so much so that I just sowed a random mix this year with [shock horror] no labels! It might be worth once relative normality returns, asking HSL as they did have both but I can't see any reference to the Irish Prean for the last few years.

During my time at HSL, I encountered a researcher who was there to look at the genetic diversity between all their different varieties. Her thesis is here. She didn't look at Bullroyd's but she did look at Irish Preans, and I've extracted from page 276 this comment 'Although Cooper’s Bean Pea, Irish Prean, Mr Bound’s Bean Pea and Prean did not appear in both lists, they do form a cluster morphologically and genetically, suggesting a close relationship in both data types'. Noticeably Bullroyd's wasn't on the list so maybe a decade ago they didn't offer it?

It is a great piece of research though, and one to refer to if wanting to grow different varieties rather than samey ones. I'm going to spend the rest of the morning dipping into the Tomato section.

[Galina]

ISSA sell Irish Preans https://store.irishseedsavers.ie/Peas_s/76.htm

[Jang]

Thank you for the link to the impressive research project thesis. A good meaty read. I’m on Chapter 2 and working up to the section on peas! And then of course, tomatoes ....