Telephone/Alderman

[Jang]

Some seed companies, perhaps just American ones as far as I can see, say that these two varieties are actually only one, and that the names are interchangeable:
https://www.victoryseeds.com/pea_tall-telephone.html
https://www.westcoastseeds.com/produ...tall-telephone

I wondered whether anyone's aware of any history which either proves or disproves this.

[Galina]

Telephone and Tall Telephone are different peas, I believe Tall Telephone is the same as Alderman.

[Jang]

I wondered whether there’s a tendency for the name Tall Telephone to be favoured in US and Alderman in UK, but it doesn’t seem to be as consistent as that. Thomas Etty for example uses Tall Telephone.
US companies seem more likely to give both names.

[Galina]

Ben from Real Seeds has written about this a while ago. Maybe ask him for what he has researched.

[Jang]

Thanks. Interesting to know the Ben has looked into the same matter
Unfortunately I'm a bit reluctant to contact him at the moment as it's so clear from their site that they've been under a lot of pressure for several months. But one day when life normalises little it would be good to know what he found.

[triffid]

Telephone is a wrinkled-seeded selection of Telegraph, developed by Culverwell and introduced by Carter in 1878. Check out the chapter Telephone Group, Peas of NY p.73

Alderman was introduced by Laxton circa 1891. "It is a selection of Duke of Albany, with more branched plants, larger and better coloured, and better filled pods and greener peas." - Peas of NY.
"Higher yields than Duke of Albany, with decidedly darker pods and peas." Known in France as Roi des Halles.

Duke of Albany was also a descendant of Telegraph, so the varieties are all related and have some similarities, but they're not identical.

Bear in mind the heights listed for peas grown in the States are consistently shorter than those grown in England.

[Galina]

It is daylight intensity. The same pea variety was swapped between 2 USA friends and myself. In Maine 2 ft tall, some peasticks needed. In Colorado's high altitude and more southern, just one foot tall, no staking needed. In Rushden up to 4 foot tall. The seed donor in Maine gave them to the seedsaver in Colorado and to me.

Peas of the same variety and planted in the same location in March grow much taller than planted in April. They seem to stretch to the light and when it is bright they grow far less in height.

[triffid]

Galina, above the page there's a bar with the text - Fit to Height + click the + to zoom
On the same bar there is also an icon for 'two page view' which allows you to read it more like a book. At the top right you can download the document if you prefer.

Thank you for the insight re peas and daylight intensity. Explains why my Oregon Giants were so small last summer!

[Jang]

Yes, the daylight intensity information is extremely illuminating. And the additional pointer to heights varying in the same location according to timing. A big penny has dropped!

[triffid]

Here is a USDA reference from the 1930s that might shed some light on why the two names are used interchangably in America. File is too large to attach so I've linked it below.
DESCRIPTIONS OF TYPES OF PRINCIPAL AMERICAN VARIETIES OF GARDEN PEAS

On Telephone

The light color of the pods was popular at the time the variety was introduced, but with the change of preference to darker pods there has been so much substitution that a large share of the peas sold as Telephone are of some long-vined, dark-podded variety, usually Alderman. There are probably market gardeners who would feel aggrieved if they got Telephone when they order it, and who believe that Alderman is Telephone. Telephone was the first tall, large-podded wrinkled pea and has tended to supplant Champion of England.

On Alderman

It has almost displaced Telephone in the United States. It is often sold as Dark-Podded Telephone but probably more often simply as Telephone, with no apologies.

[Jang]

That does seem to be a credible explanation.An interesting record.

You've found some extremely useful and interesting archived texts. Thank you. It must have taken lots of impressive persistence.

[Galina]

My sentiments exactly, appreciated Triffid.