Black seeded peas

[Jang]

I've received some very black seeded peas in a seed swap. They are labelled simply as Pisello Fava which I take to be bean pea, and in another place Pisello fava a seme nero.

I know nothing else about them and I'm wondering how common such black seeded peas are or whether anyone knows of any similar varieties.

[Galina]

Interesting. Fava is broad bean, pisello fava is that a small broad bean or an actual pea? Should be easy enough to spot the difference when you grow them Jang. I know of no black seeded pea, which does not mean they don't exist. Black seeded broad beans on the other hand are common.

[Jang]

It certainly looks like a pea to me. The hilum looks more pea-like.
And my donor had it listed under peas.

There has been speculation, of course, about the possibility of a pea/broad bean cross, in connection with the pea variety Irish Preans, but generally dismissed as far as I know. (https://www.angelfire.com/az/garethk...ishpreans.html)

Yes, I look forward to growing it to discover!

[Galina]

Yes the hillum should be different, so good luck with them. Did you get a latin name with them? Presumably not or it would be easy to check on the species. Yes Irish Preans is not the only large pea. Kools Langstro (Kola) and the Mr Bounds Pea Bean from HSL are also large seeded peas. Good luck with these Jang.

[Galina]

https://www.seedstor.ac.uk/search-chartphenotypes.php

Have just searched for the seed coat colour black (testa colour) in the John Innes Collection and there is not a single black one in their pisum collection. One 'purple' under 'others', but no black. So what you have here, if a pea, is exceedingly rare. Sorry link does not get you directly to the page, you need to search taxon, ie pisum then testa colour to get to the info. Under 'testa colour anthocyanin' 'entire 'you get dark brown examples but not as shiny black as yours in 'pisum abyssinicum'. For example GRU Store Code: JI0130

[Jang]

Thanks for going through the relevant page in the John Innes collection. Yes, it seems that this is very unusual.

The seeds aren't actually particularly large, probably slightly smaller than average. Here is a photo of them beside Telephone

[triffid]

Those are beautiful. They may be the Pisello nero di l’ago. https://www.fondazioneslowfood.com/i...-nero-di-lago/ However, they're brown with a black hilum. There's another small ancient pea from northern Italy, the Roveja. It has coats of all colours and patterns.

Andrew Barney on the OSSI forum is working with his own purple testa line which looks a lot like these, but that's the only other very dark pea I know.

[Jang]

As it happens I received seed of the two varieties you mention too.
The Roveja I have is apparently a particular local variety from Civita di Cascia near Perugia, Umbria
So interesting to compare sizes and colours, and then a close up of the whitish hilum of the black pea and the black hilum of the Pisello Nero di L’Ago. The seed of the Roveja is smaller than it looks on the photo, quite tiny in fact

[triffid]

Ah so they're not a dark seeded selection of Roveja. I had wondered because I've see a few pretty dark ones interspersed. Really looking to seeing how these grow, please keep us updated.
The Roveja are tiny; I bought a packet from an online Italian grocer a couple of years ago so had the chance to cook with and grow a few. They got to around 60cm on the shady side of a building. Purple flowers unsurprisingly. Quite a few lentils mixed into the pack that germinated, they must have been grown together.

[Silverleaf]

I have some dark peas but nothing like that! Looking forward to seeing how they grow.

[Jang]

The black seeded pea I’m growing, which incidentally my donor has said isn’t stable and isn’t guaranteed to consistently produce black seeds, turns out to have foliage which is more white-splashed than I’ve encountered before. I don’t know how common such leaf colouring is but I find it very striking.

[Jang]

Interesting. Is it a stable characteristic, do you know, rather than caused by cultural factors?

[Silverleaf]

There are definitely genetic factors for that silvery colour but I don’t know much about it.

[triffid]

Wow what fantastic mottling!!

[jayb]

Wow, so unusual, great find. Thanks for sharing lovely pics.

[triffid]

The contrast between the burgundy axils and motting is stunning. It also appears to be producing a number of branches. What a unique variety.

[Jang]

Update on the seeds produced by the black-seeded pea. I had been warned that it isn’t stable; in fact none of the seed produced is at all black. Quite ordinary in fact.

[Galina]

Yes sometimes we can't know whether it is a discrete variety or a transitory phenotype that he is offering. I have always found his descriptions difficult to understand, beyond the actual language difference. He seems to be more interested in interesting patterns and colour expressions, rather than maintaining actual varieties. I have noticed this with his broad beans too. It should have been made much clearer that this is a phenotype not a variety.

[jayb]

This is a shame, the seeds you started with looked so unusual.

[Jang]

‘It should have been made much clearer that this is a phenotype not a variety.’

To be fair, when I commented in a text that this was remarkable seed, he did warn that it wasn’t stable, but I suppose that’s a bit different from a passing phenotype.

But yes, his comments are often impenetrable so I don’t ask too many questions. His replies are unfailingly friendly and willing but often light on information!

And yes, his interest is in widening the gene pool - and interesting colours and patterns - far more than in specific varieties. I think the nod towards varieties is in order to have seeds to trade.

[Biolumo]

First post here. Some may recognize me as "keen101" from the old Alan Bishop Homegrown Goodness forum. Or "Biolumo" or Andrew Barney on the newer OSSI Open Source Plant Breeding Forum.

Jay and Galina, I'm still highly interested in getting some seeds from your pink flowered purple podded cross Sugar Beth. You said you could share some a few years back.

We are talking about it on the OSSI plant breeding forum.

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I have black seeded testa peas that breed true. I got them for a high price from the German seed bank IPK Gatersleben shipped to the U.S. It was NOT cheap.

'Vilmorin VI' seems to be the variety name. The scientific sub name seems to go by nigro-violaceum or violaceum

Accession number scientific name Accession name Country of origin Availability** item
PIS 130 Pisum sativum L. subsp. sativum convar. speciosum (Dierb.) Alef. var. nigro-violaceum Govorov Vilmorin VI France available expenditure seed accession
PIS 386 Pisum sativum L. subsp. sativum convar. speciosum (Dierb.) Alef. var. nigro-violaceum Govorov - Germany (before 1945)* available expenditure seed accession

I now have black testa peas that breed true. Violet or Purple testas that mostly breed true. And light colored red testa peas (Biskopens hybrids).

would love to continue this discussion on the OSSI forum.

-Andrew
Colorado, USA

[jayb]

I tried to join in the pink podded pea chat, but no approval as yet.

[jayb]

Hi Biolumo, thanks for dropping by

I suspect I may have messed up on harvesting seeds this year just too much going on. I've still not processed most of what I did pick but will try to get on the job and check for these, to be honest, can't even remember if I grew them last year!!!!

Brilliant that you have mostly dark testas breeding true, and to know it can be done

[triffid]

Hi Andrew, hope you're doing well! Have those blackpod runners here with your name on them. Still waiting on the APS from Gwilym. Shall email you shortly - I've been meaning to write but time is slipping through my fingers this year.

https://www.seedstor.ac.uk/search-in...?idPlant=24035 The wings are two-tone 'bipartus'. Did you notice this when you grew them?

[jayb]

Gorgeous blooms in the picture and what a stunning combination with the seed contrast. Are these the same as the bip variety/s you started this year?
Just love bipartus pea flowers.