Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Young leaf veining - Desirée

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Young leaf veining - Desirée

    Yesterday I was struck by quite prominent red veining on the young leaves of Désirée pea.

    I haven’t grown it before but it’s apparently a dwarf purple podded pea. I wondered whether such red/purple veining occurs very often in the young leaves of purple podded varieties. Whether or not, it’s very beautiful!


    Click image for larger version

Name:	67DE6439-F6C5-4664-B8A3-0F293E062CED.jpeg
Views:	60
Size:	430.9 KB
ID:	13732

  • #2
    These are so pretty and the effect is very pronounced. It is not because of purple pods particularly, but because of the effects of A, the anthocyanin enabler. Here on Swiss Giant, which is actually green podded.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	swissgiantbleedingintoleaves.JPG Views:	0 Size:	2.02 MB ID:	13738
    Last edited by Galina; 28-02-2021, 13:43.

    Comment


    • Jang
      Jang commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks. It will be interesting to see what the colouring is like on the open leaf of Désirée. I’m used to colour in the leaf axil as an indicator of anthocyanin and flower colour, but interesting that pod colour is genetically separate.
      I’ll monitor veining more closely. None of my other peas are yet showing quite this degree of colouring on the backs of their leaves.
      Last edited by Jang; 02-03-2021, 06:17.

  • #3
    Lovely photos of a striking trait. Looks a lot like anthocyanin nerves - an https://pw.ihar.edu.pl/wp-content/up...2019_small.pdf

    As far as I'm aware the genes that are required for purple pods affect the pod tissues only.
    Attached Files

    Comment


    • Galina
      Galina commented
      Editing a comment
      This catalogue of pisum genes is a treasure Triffid. Thank you.

      I wonder whether on my photo it is 'just' environmental though, because the leaves below and also behind on the Swiss Giant photo do not have the bleeding. I had it on several plants at one time and not on the early leaves and not on later leaves. Whereas on Jang's Desiree it seems more systematic.

    • triffid
      triffid commented
      Editing a comment
      I'm not sure whether it (anthocyanin nerves) actually has an affect on anything other than stipules. I can only assume that in [an] plants it would be characteristic of the leaves to not show this trait, otherwise the phenotype description would include leaf veins. Admittedly it's new to me and I haven't seen this phenotype in the flesh (or never noticed it).

  • #4
    A wonderful resource, Triffid. Thank you.

    Stipule nerves are stipulated (!) for an, rather than leaf nerves, which I find rather puzzling. Stipules only; normal leaves?
    I’ll soon be able to see how the veining develops as the leaves open and the plants mature.


    Comment


    • triffid
      triffid commented
      Editing a comment
      Yes I believe it's only visible in such a way on the stipules and not the leaves/leaflets. That's not to say that the leaflets won't have purple veins, but I think that can occur whether [an] is acting or not.
      In Galina's and the gene catalogue's photos, the pigment is surrounding the veins but the veins themselves appear green. Whereas in your photo the pigment is over the vein. I wonder if that's a significant difference, or just because its the underside of the leaf.
      Last edited by triffid; 03-03-2021, 17:35.

  • #5
    An update on Désirée veining. It is much less pronounced on the open more developed leaves.

    But the red does still seem to be in the veins themselves rather than surrounding the veins.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	6DD4B7D3-7C22-4213-80A8-31B343C4C26C.jpeg
Views:	46
Size:	595.1 KB
ID:	13781

    Comment


    • Galina
      Galina commented
      Editing a comment
      Now you have white and purple veins Jang. Even purple that seem to go off white midribs. Wonder what they are doing now. Triffid yes you put your finger right on the important difference. Not just purple bleeding but actual purple veins. Wonder whether they are still purple veined now.

  • #6
    There seems to be quite a lot of variation. Some of the older leaves lack veining; others retain it. Certainly some quite pronounced veining persists but not quite as striking as initially.

    Click image for larger version  Name:	397801B4-8337-4745-B90E-F68EE1399191.jpeg Views:	1 Size:	7.71 MB ID:	13803
    Last edited by Jang; 26-03-2021, 06:14.

    Comment


    • Galina
      Galina commented
      Editing a comment
      You also have some patches of purple in addition to the veining.

    • triffid
      triffid commented
      Editing a comment
      Those purple specks are interesting - I noticed the same thing on my F2s today. Didn't see them in the F1.

  • #7
    It does look very pretty! I was just looking at some of my pea photos and noticed it on a plant I’m assuming is one of my Golden Sweet crosses.
    Attached Files

    Comment


    • #8
      That’s very striking. Have you ever used Désirée to cross with Golden Sweet? Or perhaps a different purple podded?

      Comment


      • Silverleaf
        Silverleaf commented
        Editing a comment
        It's probably Golden Sweet x Purple Podded I expect. I don't see that kind of colouring on Purple Podded though, but who knows how the genes have recombined?

    • #9
      Spring Blush. Lower leaves no veining. The most recent leaves after about ten inches of rain in the last two weeks, strong veining.

      Click image for larger version

Name:	springblush.JPG
Views:	40
Size:	137.4 KB
ID:	13993

      Comment


      • Jang
        Jang commented
        Editing a comment
        Interesting that the veining has become more pronounced. In my Desirée it was more prominent in the very young leaves.

        Interesting too as to whether there's a connection with the amount of water received. That is a lot of rain you've had!

      • Galina
        Galina commented
        Editing a comment
        The other alternative explanation would be light levels. As with all the constant lows and rain, there was little sun visible.

      • Jang
        Jang commented
        Editing a comment
        Ah yers, more likely perhaps.

    • #10
      The Desirée plants which interested me for their heavy leaf veining are now flowering. The flowers are attractively bluish purple.
      I’m wondering whether this is within the range of the usual wild colouring?

      Click image for larger version

Name:	2A719DD6-9298-492B-B15E-AFD6DC385933.jpeg
Views:	23
Size:	297.7 KB
ID:	14091

      Comment


      • Jang
        Jang commented
        Editing a comment
        I think it's quite a young flower. I'll monitor the development of further flowers more carefully and update.

      • jayb
        jayb commented
        Editing a comment
        Stunning photo Jang and an equally stunning bloom! Colour is beautiful and look forward to your updates.

      • Galina
        Galina commented
        Editing a comment
        Please look at the photo on the John Innes Gene database of the gene ar. The ar flower looks almost exactly like yours above. Is this a solitary flower or do they all look like that? None of mine are anywhere near that blue or that veined.

    • #11
      Click image for larger version

Name:	CE341119-1AE2-46A1-9D69-DF071238E782.jpeg
Views:	14
Size:	89.6 KB
ID:	14110
      Just adding a pic of one of my ar peas.

      Comment


      • Jang
        Jang commented
        Editing a comment
        Thanks. Teasingly difficult to distinguish some of the purplish shades from each other, and to find language to describe them.
        Is this a pea you’ve given a name to?

      • Silverleaf
        Silverleaf commented
        Editing a comment
        Yes, I call this one Haka but I think I either had a crop failure or I lost my seeds. I did cross it with Telephone though and I’m growing it out this year, but so far I only have white or wild flowers. Hopefully there will be some violet flowers soon.

        I also have a few ar seeds from JIC somewhere.

    • #12
      Interesting. I think both the JIC photo and Silverleaf’s photo are a more reddish purple than in my Desirée.

      One characteristic given for ar in the database is that the hilum is narrowed to a slit whereas I think my D seeds have a normal hilum.

      I seem to have quite a variation of colouring in the Désirée and I haven’t quite weighed up the sequence as they age. In a pm Silverleaf mentioned Kent Blue for comparison and I had also thought of the similarity. When I looked back for a photo from last year when I grew KB, I realised what a variation in colouring there is in Kent Blue too. I believe that Kent Blue is considered part of the range of colouring in the wild type of flower? Comparing D and KB now, although both are rather blue, the D is more purplish blue.

      Click image for larger version

Name:	5BA49D6E-BCA6-49EE-8C9D-E8E051208EAF.jpeg
Views:	21
Size:	75.6 KB
ID:	14112

      Click image for larger version

Name:	42DD9FF2-7208-43BC-A22D-1B7A3E82EB3A.jpeg
Views:	16
Size:	314.2 KB
ID:	14113

      Comment


      • Jang
        Jang commented
        Editing a comment
        Looking back I see that we had a discussion last year about whether KB might be wild type or ar.
        https://www.growingfoodsavingseeds.c...genetics/page2

      • Galina
        Galina commented
        Editing a comment
        I guess you must be growing other 'wild' flowered peas too. Is there a clear difference between them and Desiree? Or are the minerals in your soil having an effect on flower colours?

      • Jang
        Jang commented
        Editing a comment
        Yes, I have other wild types which on the whole are more like the left flower on my Kent Blue photo. As Kent Blue is known for its bluish flowers, I imagine that photo is fairly typical of its range. And I suppose it still leaves the question as to whether the colour variation on both varieties is within the range for the wild type - or, as you suggest, Galina, brought about by specific conditions.
        There is of course a range of colours as flowers age which makes it quite difficult to pin down. And a slight problem now is that most of the flowers on Desirée have either aged or set pods.
        I wish I had observed more closely earlier and will hope to grow it again next year, especially if its eating quality is acceptable.
    Working...
    X