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Crown Peas

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  • #31
    Oh wow, that's so different. Beautiful blooms thank you.
    Maybe not as many as Jang's above, but still pretty loaded and very lovely.

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    • Jang
      Jang commented
      Editing a comment
      Just to update on my Nightmist fasciated crown plant, from which you’re also very welcome to have seeds assuming all goes well.
      I have looked for opportunities to get a photo of it in full flower but a couple of difficulties have stood in the way. One is that the flowers don’t seem to open fully for long but mostly remain sort of half open. The other is that the crown has spread out rather as the plant grows so that flowers open up the developing stem but a crown remains in bud at the top.
      A remarkable plant, if not very co-operatively photogenic.
      But I’ll definitely aim to collect seeds to grow on and send out to anyone interested.

    • jayb
      jayb commented
      Editing a comment
      I find a lot of what I think are going to be a 'tight' crown type do indeed end up being quite stretched out along the stem. I think there must be more than one requirement for a tight-headed flowering crown, as they are not so easy to come across in a segregating population. Varieties like Salmon Flower are more like a double crown or true crown with lesser types being more of crown type or single crown, if that makes sense. I also wonder if less than desirable growing conditions might mask attributes. Hope these do well for you.

    • Galina
      Galina commented
      Editing a comment
      message too big for comment, so I am putting it below in reply to your last Jayb.

  • #32
    Very simple but one I've still not found a really nice white-flowered crown pea.

    A couple of hopefuls, but not quite full-flowered enough. They are very overcrowded, perhaps they would flower better with better spacing.
    I wonder if making a back cross be worthwhile to try and capture a fuller flowering white crown?

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    • #33
      I read the rump of a paywall article, stating that the genes that make the difference between a crown pea, in their case Rosa Krone, and an ordinary pea are 'det' (determinate producing flowers at the end of stems) and 'fa' (fasciated stem). It does say on the JI database that the expression of fa is variable. But ignoring this variability for now, these are both recessive genes. In a cross with a normal pea which must have the corresponding dominant genes Det and Fa as they are not fasciated crownpeas with indeterminate flowers, we get several combinations. A full crown pea needs double recessive genes to be a crownpea again. If fa is not present, no stem thickening, but the other recessive det could still be in operation. If fa is there but not det I expect to see the looser form of flowers all up the stem and not so many in the crown. Where I have seen a looser form of crownpea with 3 flowers per node, there is clearly a third gene involved, the one for multiple flowers per node, don't recall the name now. Probably there was no 'det' and we need both recessives for a crown pea like Salmon Flowered or Rosa Krone. As recessives show themselves often in later generations than F2 or even F3, chances are you will be getting a plant with a full crown, just by continuing to grow them out Jayb until recessive det shows itself. Backcrossing to a variety with det (and fa), would equally give this process a boost. Is this making sense or have I lead myself up the garden path - wouldn't be the first time.
      Last edited by Galina; 08-07-2021, 10:35.

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      • triffid
        triffid commented
        Editing a comment
        Oops I had confused fa for the fn/fna genes needed for multiple flowers.
        "If fa is there but not det I expect to see the looser form of flowers all up the stem and not so many in the crown." makes sense to me now.
        Also here's the full text https://www.researchgate.net/publica...Pisum_sativumL

      • Galina
        Galina commented
        Editing a comment
        Yes fna is the multiple or more than two flower gene per node. It had slipped my mind. Managed to download the article and will peruse in full a bit later. Appreciated Triffid.

      • jayb
        jayb commented
        Editing a comment
        Ha, ha! All those Fa Fa and Det dets sound like they could be part of a song!
        Nice link for the Punnett calc and full text, Ta.

    • #34
      I read the rump of a paywall article, stating that the genes that make the difference between a crown pea, in their case Rosa Krone, and an ordinary pea are 'det' (determinate producing flowers at the end of stems) and 'fa' (fasciated stem). It does say on the JI database that the expression of fa is variable. But ignoring this variability for now, these are both recessive genes. In a cross with a normal pea which must have the corresponding dominant genes Det and Fa as they are not fasciated crownpeas with indeterminate flowers, we get several combinations. A full crown pea needs double recessive genes to be a crownpea again. If fa is not present, no stem thickening, but the other recessive det could still be in operation. If fa is there but not det I expect to see the looser form of flowers all up the stem and not so many in the crown. Where I have seen a looser form of crownpea with 3 flowers per node, there is clearly a third gene involved, the one for multiple flowers per node, don't recall the name now. Probably there was no 'det' and we need both recessives for a crown pea like Salmon Flowered or Rosa Krone. As recessives show themselves often in later generations than F2 or even F3, chances are you will be getting a plant with a full crown, just by continuing to grow them out Jayb until recessive det shows itself. Backcrossing to a variety with det (and fa), would equally give this process a boost. Is this making sense or have I lead myself up the garden path - wouldn't be the first time.
      No this sounds good and understandable and is just what I was looking for, much better than my vague 'double crown'.

      Helpful to know we should hopefully be getting some more crowns, I'm thinking that multiple leaves are also an indication.
      I'm enjoying growing these again, particularly as there seem to be a few recessive traits hiding away.

      Comment


      • Galina
        Galina commented
        Editing a comment
        Glad it made sense. As usual, genetic prediction is one side of it, in practice we get many unexpected surprises such as all the diverse flower colours you got.

    • #35
      Just found this thread. Was commenting on another thread that Rosakrone and Salmon-Flowered are the same??

      Also, here is a fasiated pea with purple pods (i think with red seeds from a cross with Biskopens Graert). This photo was from years ago, will need to try growing out some of my crown pea hybrids and see what shows up. Good to know that the thick umbellatum / crown / "mummy" types might be a double recessive of the determinate gene + the fasiatied gene. Mummy-White seems to just have the fasciation but not the determinate gene and some of my hybrids have been determinate but not had thick stems.

      https://keen101.files.wordpress.com/...pstwhhddhz.jpg

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      Last edited by Biolumo; 18-02-2022, 03:45.

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