Serpette Guilloteau

[Jang]

Does anybody know anything about the origin of this pea? Real Seeds stock it though my seed came from a swap. They refer to the meaning of the name - a Serpette according to Google Translate is a bill hook though RS say it's a special kind of knife. Guilloteau is perhaps just a name.
RS say it's traditional but I can't find any information as to when it might first have appeared.

[Galina]

There really is very little out there Jang. Just wondering whether it might be an old Vilmorin variety? Seems to be spelt with an 'x' at the end and several French companies stock them, but no origin details.

[Jang]

Thanks Galina. It’s difficult to accept sometimes that information has simply got lost!
The Vilmorin suggestion is certainly plausible. The variety doesn’t occur in the Vilmorin tome I have but I don’t know that that proves anything.

[Galina]

In Hedrick's peas of New York there is mention of a Serpette but not the rest, so could be any curved pea variety. Well we keep our ears open and maybe information will happen. In the meantime all we can do is grow these peas for an early treat.

[Jang]

Thanks for the reminder of that amazing text. A great read even without the Guilloteau(x)!

[jayb]

Might it be worth dropping a line to Real Seeds and asking if they have further information or could give you their references that may have more details (if there are any).

It does seem part of the problem with heritage varieties, not only do the actual seeds slide but also the information. So sad this heritage is being lost from future generations.

[Jang]

Yes, thanks for the suggestion. I'll see how I get on and let you know if they're happy to share any more information. I've got quite a few of their varieties I'd like to ask for more information about. Wonderfully worthy organisation though they are, they don't give as much background information as one might wish for.

And yes, I agree totally about the sadness of heritage information being lost. The internet is the perfect means, though, to enable growers to hang on to whatever is known and not let any more slide away. Let's hope it can work that way.

[Biolumo]

Based on your description of the knife I would guess that it refers to the shape of the pod. There is a different word for it in English, but can't remember at the moment. A sort of S shaped curve. Blunt pod gene??

[Galina]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scimitar

[Jang]

Google translate offers bill hook or pruning knife. Quite a different feel from a scimitar.

Either way it’s a very curved pod presumably, as pictured by Real Seeds, but not necessarily blunt ended.

https://www.realseeds.co.uk/images/24035%20pesg%20.jpg

[Biolumo]

Yes, i think Scimitar is what i was thinking of. Sort of fits depending on the length of scimitar i suppose, though the french Serpette seems to fit better with the type of knife. I guess some sort of s-shaped specialty kitchen knife.

Wonder if the S-shape is caused by having both the convex and concave pod genes at the same time?