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Guise pea

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  • Guise pea

    This pea is an imposter.

    A few years ago I bought a packet of seeds from Lidl labelled "Sugar Bon". The packet says the plants are "sugar peas" and should grow to 70cm, and the internet tells me that the pods are snap pods. I bought them because they were cheap, and never sowed any until this year because I don't usually bother with dwarf peas. Tall ones are better!

    The seed germinated fine right in the ground, and I stuck in a few short canes to help them out.

    But as soon as they started to grow, it became obvious that they were going to be tall. And they grew... and grew... to over 6ft. :/ It's a good job there were a few taller canes next to them because the short ones were totally inadequate.

    And when the pods formed, it was also clear that it wasn't a snap type, but a mangetout. So it's definitely not Sugar Bon but there's no way to know what it really is, so I've renamed it Guise and will grow it again next year and likely make some crosses. It's quite a nice pea, to be honest.

    There's no trace of antho anywhere on the plant - it has white flowers and everything else is green. The pods are 9-11cm long with no fibre at all apart from the strings on the side of the older pods. The taste is pleasant, not bitter, with a little sweetness and a nice juicy crunch. I've picked a few far too late where the peas were half-grown and they still taste fine. It's been quite productive, and is still producing a few flowers and pods now.

  • #2
    The seeds I sowed were uniformly yellow and round. I was extremely surprised to see segregation in the seeds I collected!

    You can see we have seeds that are yellow and round, yellow and wrinkled, green and round, and green and wrinkled. This means that at least some of the plants are carrying i (green cotyledons) and/or r (wrinkled seed). Possibly there's some rb (simple rather than compound starch) but I don't know how to recognise that so i'm ignoring it.

    I yellow cotyledons
    i green cotyledons

    R round seed
    r wrinkled seed


    • #3
      What fun
      Good ol' Lidl.
      From the picture it looks like you have both round and wrinkle in the original seed batch?


      • #4
        It only seems to be a slight wrinkle, not like some of the offspring! Perhaps there's three types - round, slightly wrinkled, and wrinkled. The offspring certainly could be divided like that.


        • #5
          What I can't work out is, what on earth was happening with Lidl's seed growers? All of the seeds I got were yellow and round, or almost round. The relative uniformity of one generation is such a contrast to the segregation of the next, and the only way I can make sense of that would be if the original seeds are hybrids. And making hybrid peas as a commercial variety would make absolutely no sense at all.


          • #6
            And making hybrid peas as a commercial variety would make absolutely no sense at all.
            None at all, it is a oddity.


            • #7
              Not that the seed colour matters at all in a mangetout pea, but it's intriguing. And it doesn't make sense.


              • #8
                I have a couple more pods developing nicely on the plants, so we'll see what they look like as they dry.


                • #9
                  Well, did you get the sweepings of the seed room there Silverleaf??? The original seeds look like Oregon Sugar pod, but that doesn't produce anything other than yellow round seeds on tall plants. This is really strange.

                  Lidl seeds are of course subject to European Seed Law and that states that the packet must contain what it says and that the seeds must be DUS - distinct from any other variety, uniform (not producing different pods/seeds - stable ie genetically stable (unless it is hybrid seed). How many laws has your seed packet broken?

                  Jayb, I don't see proper 'wrinkle' seeds in the original packet, just a few little dents. Oregon Sugar Pod certainly has those dents too. The only really fully round (like shot pellets) pea seeds I know are from pea 'Paula'.


                  • #10
                    Some of those peas are really smooth, and quite round, with no dents at all. If the dented seeds are really genetically round, I'm seeing something suspiciously like the standard Mendelian ration of 3:1 in the offspring - 28 round, 9 wrinkled - which would support the idea of a hybrid. But if that's the case - why?

                    There's far more green than I'd expect though.

                    Here's the packet.

                    It clearly states Sugar Bon, but then it says "The plant, the pods and leaves differ hardly from normal marrowfat peas" and I'd argue that a mangetout pod is quite different from a standard one. It claims heights of 70cm, whereas mine were over 2.5 times that tall (maybe they got confused between inches and centimetres). Pod length is supposed to be 8cm, mine are consistently 2-3cm more than that. So yeah, there's been a mix-up somewhere.


                    • #11
                      Jayb, I don't see proper 'wrinkle' seeds in the original packet, just a few little dents. Oregon Sugar Pod certainly has those dents too. The only really fully round (like shot pellets) pea seeds I know are from pea 'Paula'.
                      You're right not fully wrinkled at all, but similar to some in Silverleaf's wrinkle pile. I've noticed similar in segregating crosses and wondered at them being different seed types.


                      • #12
                        Makes you wonder whether these were sold off cheaply, but were actually the results of a commercial hybrid pea breeding project? The only explanation is that they were hybrid seeds. Lidl often buys up oddments of warehouse sale items, why not seeds? Shouldn't have labelled them the way they did, but that is quite a different matter. Good fun for the likes of us - who else would know


                        • #13
                          I suppose that's entirely possible. And yes, it's only because I saved the seeds that I noticed its probably hybrid-ness - if you were just growing the plants and eating the pods you'd never know at all.

                          If Guise is a hybrid (and I very strongly suspect that it is), it may well be segregating for a lot of other traits when I grow out the offspring, so there's the potential to select for traits that I particularly like. Honestly I don't care whether a mangetout pea has green or yellow cotyledons, but it should be interesting to see what the other differences are.


                          • #14
                            Just looked at the packet picture properly and that shows mangetouts and not snap peas. Ah well, yes it will be interesting how guise segregates. Sugar Bon in dis-Guise???


                            • #15
                              It does, but the internet clearly says that Sugar Bon is a snap pea, which should have let me know that it wasn't what it seemed if I'd looked at the picture properly! And yes, Guise is a character in a superhero card game who can use the powers of other superheroes. It seemed a perfect match for this pea!