Growing a tasty compact chilli

[Hector1]

I absolutely love chillis and grow a fair few. We tried dwarf/ patio varieties two years ago....very nice but tend to be quite fiery.

I fancy crossing one of the varieties we use for Mexican cooking to try and get that taste and a compact habit. Pasilla Bajio Is a favourite, with a nice Rich flavour/ medium hot but gets to 32 inches high and a spread of about 25 inches.

I am tempted to try and cross with one of my F1 dwarves, which are 14 inch eight and spread. Both are Capsicum annuum.


I'm very new to this, so all suggestions/ comments welcome

[Silverleaf]

That sounds very interesting! Looking forward to seeing how you get on.

[jayb]

Crossing using an F1 will give quite a jiggle of genes and you can start to select the resulting offspring in the F1 stage as it is not a stable cross and will already be segregating. Offspring can take longer to grow out to stability and in some cases it might be harder to select for the traits you want. So good in one way - the two of you can start selecting next year and go from there.

Another idea you might like to try is to save selfed seeds from a dwarf F1 type you like and grow it out until stable, each time selecting from your favourite plant/s with the traits you like best. It's often said don't grow saved seeds from an F1 plant as they won't be any good. In most cases I disagree with that, F1's are often bred from highly tuned breeding lines, often similar in type to get the results/traits needed into the F1 variety. This can then be used to select for suitable traits you are looking for and I think many of the plants you grow from saved seed would be quite similar to the parent. They might not better the parent but be of a good enough standard you want to keep selecting from them.

[Galina]

Pasila B is the one with rather long, brown fruits? Or am I thinking about another pepper? If so, can a dwarf plant sustain this size of fruit? Or would they be in proportion and much smaller. I know that if you cross a sweet pepper and a hot pepper, the hot is dominant. What happens if you cross a slightly hot pepper with a hotter pepper? What is the ratio of really hot to Pasila type mild hot? It will be an education, as I know nothing about peppers and their genes. Watching with interest Hector.

[Hector1]

Good points with selfing F1 and also re size of fruits maybe overpowering. I mayhave a Baccatum with small fruits and good flavour...not too late to sow?

Found this interesting table

http://www.thechileman.org/guide_crossing_peppers.php

[Galina]

Thank you for this url. Tried to find it when I wrote the post about saving pepper seeds on A4a, but could not see it Hector.

In the end it was easier to say that peppers cross and how to avoid it

[jayb]

Pasila B is the one with rather long, brown fruits? Or am I thinking about another pepper? If so, can a dwarf plant sustain this size of fruit? Or would they be in proportion and much smaller. I know that if you cross a sweet pepper and a hot pepper, the hot is dominant. What happens if you cross a slightly hot pepper with a hotter pepper? What is the ratio of really hot to Pasila type mild hot? It will be an education, as I know nothing about peppers and their genes. Watching with interest Hector.

I think fruit size would all rearrange in the selection process and if any were of the same size then overall number of fruits would be dramatically reduced? I don't know how the dominance of heat works within hots? I suspect you would get a range of heats and hopefully get some which match to plant size and fruiting ability. I'm fairly sure Tall growing is dominate to short, which means capturing size should be straight forward and might be a way to eliminate some plants.

[Hector1]

I do have a small fruit tasty on. Fruits are 5-6 cm?

I'm pretty certain I have read that hot is dominant....will have a root about.

[jayb]

Just wondering if you've decided on candidates for crossing? I've a couple of ideas I want to follow but it likely won't be til later in the year as the ones I want to use are late sown ones. I'm hoping to use something with variegation and a mildish type.

[Hector1]

I was wanting to cross with the small fruit form of Aji Amarillo but not been able to sow this year.
So choices limited to selfing or crossing between this lot: I'll write more later as on way out


small ones
(prairie Fire- Dwarf form. good cropper of hot upward facing red or purple fruit. Gets to about 12 inch) F1

(Demon red. dwarf form...nice and tasty upward facing hot fruit 14 inch. F1. AGM

(Super chilli . Dwarf ..tasty prolific. Red fruit ( multicoloured fruit when ripening) . Upward facing 2-3 inchmedium heat. 12 inch. F1 AGM This ones my possible dwarf favourite.

Apache dwarf 18 inch red fruit medium heat AGM.


Bigger chillis I like/ have

trepadeira Werner smallish but sprawly but fab taste apparently. Loads of yellow cherry type fruit...not grown this before. Baccatum

(Mexican chile Chilaca /Pasilla when fresh and Pasilla. 48 inch tree like form. Wonderfully tasty and mild chilli, long green to brown fruit 6-10" long. Open pollinated. lOve this plant.

Gelbe Kirschen. (Frutescens) Short plant 30 inch I think. Covered in yellow cherry like fruit. Like this. Open pollinated kosovian variety from real seeds. Hot! Another favourite.

Basque chilli. Of all plants I've sown at same time, these budded first. Tasty. From France and reported to do well in UK? Mild fruit 4-6 inches long...red.

padron. Strongest plants f all I've sown.


Thoughts:

id love a not too hot dwarf with taste more a focus than heat....like Super Chilli a lot...so wondering. Re selfing and/ or crossing with Trep or Gelbe or Pasilla....I adore that taste.


Or

Struck by the stature of Padron and the earliest of Basque....so possibly a good one to look at for early plants that are strong?

i really have no idea what I'm doing but that's thoughts

[Galina]

Are they all compatible for crosses? Sorry my knowledge of pepper species is very limited.

As an aside - I am growing F2s of Basket of Fire (which is a hybrid) and they are displaying great variation, but all are on the small side. If any of them turn out fruity rather than plain hot, I will happily share with you. BoF is an capsicum annuum (I think).

[Hector1]

I think so, from table linked above? It says F1 hybrids germinate normally...I think that means ok ?

I am growing Prairie Fire but even with two different seed sources this has been temperamental. I had no problem previously with Basket of Fire.
thank you, I'd be grateful
Equally, if you need any seed of whatever I try, you are Welcome

[Galina]

that's appreciated, Hector

[jayb]

I've not tried Super Chilli, but if it is one you love I'd have thought saving and selecting from the best would lead to a good variety for you. Equally I like the sound of a Padron or Pasilla crossed with a small basket type, endless combinations to select from?

[Chris11]

Interesting to hear any updates from these possible crosses?

My understanding is baccatums will potentially but not easily cross with annuums, but viability and potential sterility of seeds could be a problem.

Annuum/Chinense/Frutescens are closely related and easily crossed, baccatums are partially reproductively isolated, and pubescens fully reproductively isolated.

In terms of an interesting dwarf variety for a potential cross, I'd suggest Pot Black.

[Galina]

There may be no need for a cross, just looking for the right variety. I love Pretty in Purple, not too hot but certainly a chili. Very decorative too and not a tall plant at all. http://www.johnnyseeds.com/flowers/p...-seed-560.html

[Galina]

I like the look of Hot Black. As compact as Pretty in Purple but the peppers are a little larger.