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yayyy, making peas!!!!!

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  • yayyy, making peas!!!!!

    I finally got around to making some pea crosses today, so excited

  • #2
    Fantastic! Fun, isn't it?

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    • #3
      Happy days! My peas are just about all straw by now, apart from the F2s. How do you keep them alive for so long?
      And what did you cross? Just packed up my crosses. Looking forward most of all to the redder Elisabeth x Elisabeth and to Golden Sweet x Bijou.
      Last edited by Galina; 08-08-2014, 22:39.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Silverleaf View Post
        Fantastic! Fun, isn't it?
        Yes brilliant, and curiously relaxing all at the same time! I never thought I'd get to do any this year so, I'm grinning from ear to ear, fingers crossed any that take get a chance to mature.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Galina View Post
          Happy days! My peas are just about all straw by now, apart from the F2s. How do you keep them alive for so long?
          And what did you cross? Just packed up my crosses. Looking forward most of all to the redder Elisabeth x Elisabeth and to Golden Sweet x Bijou.
          Because I was so slow to get going this year they are really my main lot of pea that should have been planted much earlier.
          Both those crosses sound very good, exciting times. I'm also eager to see the colour of redder Elisabeth flowers next season, which way will she go!

          I crossed
          Golden Sweet to a Sugar Beth F2 (pink, pink, part pod colour, snap type)
          Golden Sweet to a White Crown F2 or 3 and
          White Crown F2 or 3 x Golden Sweet
          Sugar Beth F2 (pink, pink, part pod colour, snap type) x Sugar Beth F2 (purple, purple, mangetout full pod colour)
          Sugar Beth F2 (purple, purple, mangetout full pod colour) x Golden Sweet
          Sugar Beth F2 (purple, purple, mangetout full pod colour) x White Crown
          Sugar Beth F2 (purple, purple, mangetout full pod colour) x Pink Crown
          Sugar Beth F2 (purple, purple, mangetout full pod colour) x Sugar Beth F2 (pink, pink, part pod colour, snap type)

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          • #6
            Drooling at the potential of these Crown crosses. Just fabulous.

            Why did you cross different Sugar Beth F2s with each other? I am sure there is a good reason, but my brain doesn't quite get the concept. Is this a more targeted version of the original cross? And as the F2s are not stable varieties in their own right yet, is it a bit like remaking the original cross? And help! which generation are the seeds out of these crosses? F1 or F3? Would you expect F1 uniformity or not?

            A different question but along the same idea. If I wish to discover/exploit the latent potential of recessive features that plants of an F2 generation might hold (in case none of my F2 plants showed the desired breeding characteristics), do I then need to re-cross the F2s with each other or do I just need to grow them out a further generation and hope they will segregate and give me what I want.

            PS: I should probably know some of these answers, but my mind has gone blank and befuddled.
            Last edited by Galina; 11-08-2014, 11:35.

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            • #7
              Some of your F2s will be carrying the recessive genes you're looking for, and a smaller number will be homozygous for the dominant traits (and therefore useless to you in that sense). If you allow the heterozygotes to self-pollinate (which genetically should be the same as the original F1 x F1 cross), you should hopefully get some of the recessive a showing through in the F3.

              I'm thinking that doing F2 x F2 crosses for recessive traits may be counterproductive. Of course you can't tell which are homozygous and which are heterozygous, and that's the problem. Assuming one gene for simplicity, there are three possible crosses and no way of telling which you've done! I'll use A as an example.

              AA x AA: all offspring will be AA and show the dominant trait, just as they would if the plants had selfed.
              AA x Aa: half of the offspring will be AA, and half will be Aa. Both types look identical.
              Aa x Aa: a quarter of your plants will be AA, half Aa, and a quarter aa (what you're looking for). Exactly the same as if the Aa plants had selfed.

              So the first and third examples are just like selfing and are pointless. The second creates more heterozygotes from plants that might have thrown up double recessives in the F3, so overall you'd be better off leaving the plants to do their own thing, assuming all you're trying to do is get that recessive.
              Last edited by Silverleaf; 11-08-2014, 15:28. Reason: Formatting.

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              • Galina
                Galina commented
                Editing a comment
                I appreciate that - thank you for lifting my brain fog!

            • #8
              Hmm. My carriage returns got removed from my post! I'll have to try editing when I get to my computer. How annoying.

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              • Galina
                Galina commented
                Editing a comment
                Reads ok even so.

              • Silverleaf
                Silverleaf commented
                Editing a comment
                Fixed now! Seems this forum doesn't like my iPad.

            • #9
              Originally posted by Galina View Post

              Why did you cross different Sugar Beth F2s with each other? I am sure there is a good reason, but my brain doesn't quite get the concept. Is this a more targeted version of the original cross? And as the F2s are not stable varieties in their own right yet, is it a bit like remaking the original cross? And help! which generation are the seeds out of these crosses? F1 or F3? Would you expect F1 uniformity or not?

              A different question but along the same idea. If I wish to discover/exploit the latent potential of recessive features that plants of an F2 generation might hold (in case none of my F2 plants showed the desired breeding characteristics), do I then need to re-cross the F2s with each other or do I just need to grow them out a further generation and hope they will segregate and give me what I want.

              PS: I should probably know some of these answers, but my mind has gone blank and befuddled.
              I made the crosses for a few reasons, partly because I wanted to see the results as I've never read or seen pictures of a pink flowered pink-red podded pea and don't know how it will behave. Which is perhaps why the cross was made in the first place, but at the time I was hoping for a pink flowered purple podded mangetout/snap. I didn't know that pod colour would be changed too.
              This time I wanted to cross the red podded to a solid purple mangetout (though as the purple have aged I'm not so sure they seem to have some fading and that green tip) It's a similar cross but just a bit more complicated I think? The seeds from the cross will still be an F1 but they will not be uniform as they are already segregating varieties. From a growing point the F1 plants will behave more as an F2 and show variations, it will also perhaps make it harder to stabilise.

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              • #10
                The most exciting outcome would be a pink flowering, fully pink snap pod. A real novelty.

                Well yes, I wondered whether your purple pods were fully purple, mainly because of the green bit at the end and the green along the seam. But then I was fooled by my purple looking CEG x Shiraz cross F1 where it was quite obvious with the later pods that they were semi purple, just like the second plant. Semi purple can look almost green and it can look almost full purple. Very confusing.

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                • #11
                  A fully pink snap or mange-tout would be fab, but I'm not sure it will come from these lines? I'm interested to see the pod colour on the Sugar Magnolia's I have growing, they are from the same batch as the pollen parent in this cross.I wonder how the colour will compare to a purple pod x yellow pod cross? I think in the photos I've seen the red colour is more vivid than pink. Even though these are part coloured I'm a happy bunny! I hope you find you're solid red pods, but if not you will love the colour combinations of part coloured.

                  It may not be the same thing but with tomatoes, colours and stripe patterns in segregating varieties can be a bit mixed up until they start to settle down through further generations.

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                  • #12
                    Five and a half weeks on from making those crosses, it's really brilliant to have been picking them. The pods are still green but mature enough I think and I'd rather pick than let the mice get a taste! I've put them all to dry in little pots, I'm hoping the air stays nice and warm to dry them.

                    Roll on spring, I'm not sure what I'm going to grow yet as I still have some F1's from last year I've not sown yet!

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